Acoustic Patch

Discussion in 'Preset Exchange' started by Effy, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. Effy

    Effy New Member

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    anyone with a acoustic preset
     
  2. Greg Miller

    Greg Miller Well-Known Member

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    Sorry that nobody has chimed in. And I won't do much better, but can maybe help a little.

    I've played modelers forever. And even those with a simple preamp (called Tube Preamp in the PODs, I think) setting did not sound very good with acoustic. But what worked on all my PODs, two Boss GTs, and a Vox Tonelab was this - use the Fender Twin model. I played numerous tone-critical venues with this (like weddings) with great results. Add a touch of delay, reverb, and maybe some chorus (very light) and you'll get a very fine amplified acoustic tone. People are used to hearing piezo-equipped guitars days as opposed to mic'd guitars. I think you'll enjoy what you hear.

    As for IRs, I don't know where to start. None of my earlier models gave my options. I think I turned the cab off each time. Let your ears decide that part.

    You do have me thinking. I haven't had mine long (and it's my backup), but now I'm curious how my gorgeous Larrivee DV-09K will sound through the Amplifire.

    Hope this helps a little.
     
  3. Oskar Leijon

    Oskar Leijon New Member

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    Hi guysl
    I am new to the Amplifire, but I have had some experience with modelers and acoustic tones. Using an IR will work wonders I am pretty sure. 3Sigma have some nice ones, and there is a pretty decent one from a Taylor 314 that I found on another forum for a competing product.

    There is of course good Youtube video of how to do it in Amplifire
     
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  4. Chalky

    Chalky Well-Known Member

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    Although there's guidance on uTube re "how to.." it's not very expensive to buy, Sigma offers acoustic guitar impulses for $10, covering a range from Gibson, Martin, Taylor, and Takamine. I'm going to try the Martin D45 one. And compare that to my Fishman Aura. The A12 is pretty damn impressive already, I have used it DI in a band recording, with my Marshall 1987x to the Retrun loop, and to a Bose L1S....all excellent results... I will be delighted if A12 can also assume the role of my fIshman.
     
  5. Chalky

    Chalky Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the Sigma D45 IR sounds great even recording my little Martin X15 in Logic via the A12 ... wow that is so simple and elegant for recording, and that saves so much setting up time for recording and even more clobber for playing live. Very impressed.
     
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  6. aleclee

    aleclee Forum Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    Been using those Taylor IRs going back to my AxeFx days. Never looked to buy acoustic IRs given how happy I was with those.
     
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  7. Guitar1969

    Guitar1969 Senior Member

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    There has been a lot of discussion of this on The Gear Page. Mainly tied to the Sigma IRs since they came out with a bunch of acoustic IRs recently (I own the Martin one) . Works pretty good to give a fuller acoustic sound, but if you are trying to simulate an acoustic with an electric, that's where is gets dicey, as you really need to have certain pickups to simulate it.
     
  8. oakcharles19

    oakcharles19 Active Member

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    Just came across this yesterday and after downloading the Taylor 314 from the link above (THANK YOU!) I cannot believe how I ever gigged with my acoustic before. After plugging it to the Amplifire using the Taylor IR (different mic options available, mi favorite so far is the Neumann U87) I could not stop playing. I recorded several clips with the different mics and with the IR off and it is just day and night!

    I am wondering now if I should pay for the 3Sigmas, I don't see how they could be that much better than the Taylor 314s.

    Anyways, thought I would share that. Maybe someone has tried the 3Sigmas vs. the Taylor? And again, thank you Oskar and whoever created those IRs.
     
  9. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Hi, how do you setup the cab block for the acoustic IR? I couldn’t manage to get good results with acoustic IRs mixed further than 50% (on Fishman Aura, Logic, Helix native, etc), since the cab block of AF don’t have a mix control, I couldn’t use it for that yet.

    Cheers
     
  10. dheran

    dheran Well-Known Member

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    Hi all. I bought the IRs of Martin from 3Sigmas and use them through a Logidy EPSi with my Yamaha APX500II guitar. It´s just great. The tone is natural and you get rid of all the difficulties of live micing/noise. Still to receive my AFB, to see if it can replace the EPSi. I still have a concern: the IR length. On the EPSi, you get 1.5 seconds (!!!) of IR length, with just 1 ms latency. This is the absolut BEST value of everey IR loader I´ve seen to the date (please correct me if I´m wrong). In the AFB, you get 0.021 seconds (21 ms) IR length. Even when it seems that it´s agreed that´s OK for cabs, the acoustic sound is more of a reverb effect because of the resonances of the guitar bodies. So, the EPSi is unbeatable for acoustic instruments IRs. 3Sigma IRs are 150 ms length, so they´ll be trtuncated in every IR loader but the EPSi. Will it make any audible difference?
     
  11. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Hi dheran, do you have an IR mix on the EPSI? How do you use to set it up?
     
  12. dheran

    dheran Well-Known Member

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    Hi Andy. I just set the EPSi EQ to flat and put the IR. That´s all. I EQ to taste in the guitar preamp and from the EPSi I go to the mixer. There I add just a little compressor and EQ (to stand up in the band mix), and a touch of reverb.

    Sometimes, I play with the stereo capabilities of the EPSi, which actually means that you can run 2 impulses in paralel. 2 independent channels. So I put an acoustic IR in left channel and a cab IR in the right one. Then I run my acoustic in the left and my electric (with a pedalboard and/or fx pedals) in the right.

    An acoustic IR mix could be done splitting the signal from the guitar, entering thus both channels, and loading 2 different acoustic IRs, one in each channel. I´ve not tried this... if I did, I´d got no time to play! :)

    Hope the AFB lets me to use the acoustic IRs without losing quality vs the EPSi... because it has the extra fx (comp, rev, eq...) so the whole acoustic rig could be just this little box!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  13. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Please let me know if you can, I couldn’t match the result of my fishman aura equiped Martin with 3sigma IRs and AF12, but maybe I’m not doing things well.
     
  14. dheran

    dheran Well-Known Member

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    OK, sure, I´ll let you know when I test the AFB. I don´t know if the imaging technology of the Fishman Aura is exactly the same as using IR´s. As far as I know, it works blending the processed signal with the dry one. With the IRs, you don´t blend them, just apply the IR convolution to the signal.

    One friend of mine, pro guitarist (a really great one) tried the Aura system and didn´t like it. He prefers to blend the signal of a piezo and a internal mic, and... instead of meking it with a built-in preamp, he just installs both in his acoustics (well, a luthier do that, using high quality mic and piezo) and externally blends them with a Zoom A3. Man, his live sound is glorious. When I showed him my IR setup, he liked it more than the Aura, he was a little surprised but still isn´t absolutely sold on it. However, we made some A/B comparison between his setup and mine, both with his guitar (using just piezo with my IRs, muting the mic signal), and they both sounded quite well, not a night and day gap between them at all. I mean, mine setup is perfectly useable as a very good sounding setup for live, and much more simple and safe (in terms of noise couplings and whaever...).

    Now, well... let´s face the truth: I´m using a "just decent" guitar, and it sounds very good thanks to the IRs. If you use a great guitar (such as my friends´) with a very high quality system (top notch piezo, top notch mic) your sound will be better, of course. But for me, the point is that I can get somewhere close with much less gear quality and avoiding those nightmares of configurations that the soundtechs have to deal with to keep noises away.
     
  15. oakcharles19

    oakcharles19 Active Member

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    Hello,

    To be honest, I just downloaded the IRs, opened the Amplifire Editor, plugged the Amplifire, loaded the IRs to a patch which only had this in the chain: Noise Gate, Compressor and the Cab block (no preamp, amp, etc.) and played. Did not change any of the settings in the IR block (kept the default values). My guitar (Takamine) sounded great with just that. Had a gig on Friday and I only adjusted the EQ on the mixer (added a little bit of bass). Best guitar sound I ever got, also noticed by my friends in the audience, who asked me if I had bought a new guitar or something.

    So, my approach was not to mess with any of the settings and see how it sounds... sounds great!
     
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  16. dheran

    dheran Well-Known Member

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    Hi there. I've finally made the comparison between the EPSi and the AFB. Made mostly the same as oakcharles19: first, load the IR and review it's parameters. I wanted them to be flat, with no rolloff and nothing that could change it's behavior because this is how the EPSi runs the IRs too. At this point, the sound is essentially the same as the EPSi. But adding a subtle expander (gate) and then a studio compressor, also subtle, with slow attack and fast release, the sound feels a bit better. I also added a post HPF at 100Hz, some boominess out. Then, if desired, a little reverb. The result is what I was expecting... I don't feel the difference in the IR length. Yeah, I haven't got the finest ears in the world (actually, I've got bad ears... Couldn't work as a sound tech guy), but my feeling is as described. My conclusion is that I'm not going to need the EPSi anymore... Maybe will swap the firmware to use it as a top notch reverb engine (6 seconds of stereo convolution with ultra low latency), or maybe I'll sell it. Hope this helps!
     
  17. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Hi, it’s good to know that! Thanks
     
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  18. dheran

    dheran Well-Known Member

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    There is another way of blending the dry signal from the acoustic guitar with the IR one. Of course you can use a little mixer. However, if you've got 2 inputs in your FRFR speaker (my Alto TS210 has, and many others also), with independent volume control, you can connect the 1/4 output on the AFB to one input of the speaker, and the xlr output on the AFB to the other input of the speaker. Then just setup the AFB to have cab simulation activated in just one of the outputs, letting the other one deactivated. Blend both volume controls in the speaker to taste... Yes, it's one extra cable...
     
  19. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tip, It’s technically posible, maybe for a 100% acoustic setup this will work, but with my setup I can’t do that.

    I understand for a 300 usd device this workaround, but for an 800 usd device like AF12, considering how easy should be adding a software blend control, as the one implemented by default in most of the other ir capable modelers and plugins on the market, I can’t get how they didn’t already realized about the potential of that mod.
     
  20. dheran

    dheran Well-Known Member

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    Yes... I get the point. I don't know if something like the helix can do that. Nevertheless, I actually don't feel that I need to blend the 3Sigma IR... I've used it live just as is, and find it superb. Maybe your guitar is great and its sound just need a little of the IR to get rounded, and thus the Fishman Aura gets the job done. My APX is a budget guitar, and these IRs make it sound like a very good one. The AA12, however, has a tough rival in the Helix. It's about the same price but the helix is much more complete in every aspect. For me, the AA12 has only one obvious advantage: size and weight. Maybe one subjective advantage: quality of amp sims... But that is not a fact. In all of the other fields, helix is superior. Maybe the price should be a little lower to justify these differences. I'm really happy with the AFB... There's nothing similar in the market at that price.
     

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