Amplifire vs Tube Preamp and IR loader..

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Brianmodeler, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Brianmodeler

    Brianmodeler Member

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    Thinking about the AFB or the AF3 but came across the option of tube preamps. Mooer has a $100 IR loader and there are tube preamps out there. What do you think would actually give more real amp feel?
     
  2. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    You know how good is the power amp stage modeling of the mooer? I think it represents a huge part of the final sound.

    Cheers
     
  3. mollydyer

    mollydyer Well-Known Member

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    Before my AA, I had a TwoNotes LePre - the red LeLead model. It's a tube preamp. While it really NEEDS an IR behind it, it just wasn't flexible enough. It had way too much gain for starters - I pulled the 12AX7 and dropped in 12AU7 and 12AT7 to try to tame it. Yes, it felt like an amp, but no more than my mesa boogie. The AA feels *the same* as my mesa as well, with the added benefit of total programability.

    The TwoNotes unit is great but I'm selling it.
     
  4. Jr.Deluxe

    Jr.Deluxe Well-Known Member

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    A real tube amp has about 350 or more volts on the plate of the tube. Some over 500 volts. No 12 volts on a preamp tube is going to feel like that. Sorry but digital model wont either. But either or both can SOUND like a real tube amp . Worry about the sound. Feel has so many variables you cant control. Volume, method of monitoring, level in the mix, how far from amp and lots of other factors. As far as sound i think the AF3 will sound better than a tube pre and a mooer radar.
     
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  5. mollydyer

    mollydyer Well-Known Member

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    ^ BTW- the two notes claims to have 200+ volts on the plates. How? Magic. But I digress. It still wasn't quite as right as the AA
     
  6. Brianmodeler

    Brianmodeler Member

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    I actually have a parts list priced out for building a soldano x88r high voltage tube preamp. You know, real power transformer and everything to pump up the supply voltage to the proper designated B+ voltages. would be less to build in cost for me than it would be to purchase an afb

    Thinking of building it with some sort of modular design becasue changing just a few values in the channels can change the preamp from a jcm 8-- to a plexi etc.

    Now if I build this its real tubes at real voltage based on real schematics that all the amp odelers are trying to emulates. I can put it through a solid state power amp or build a rack mount power amp. Or run it into two notes wos for power amp sim or use the mooer radar. Or even the AFB for power amp sim and IR loading.

    Question is what is critical to real tone and feel....is it the high voltage in the preamp? Is it accurate power amp sim vs real power amp gain plus combination with cab sim?
     
  7. Jr.Deluxe

    Jr.Deluxe Well-Known Member

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    So many amps, each feel very different. I think you have to narrow it down. Does a model of a marshall "feel" like a real plexi or 800? Does the model of a twin "feel" like a real twin? If your asking does this high voltage preamp into a SS amplifier feel like a real amp, i have to ask what specific amp do you want to feel like? You pretty much have a real amp at this point anyways. In very general terms a modeller is much tighter than a real tube amp. There is no parameter called sag as far as i know in the fender deluxe model yet my real deluxe has some sag going on. A real jcm 800 is pretty tight and punchy. One thing i like about the atomic is its 800 model is very tight and punchy if you use it right. Check 1 for feel.

    Playing a modeller with class d amplification and FRFR speakers is going to feel different than an old amp through a well worn guitar speaker. It just is. Thre arr times when a modeller is convenient like gigs that require all isolated monitoring and no amp onstage or some recording sessions or other situations that come up. Maybe you play covrs that need 20 different amp sounds. You dont cry the feel is wrong, you get your modeller and play. Then maybe you get a run of gigs where you can turn up an amp and enjoy the feel of real volume and hot tubes. Get out your tube amp and tube out. I dont limit myself to one or the other technology. Feel or not.
     
  8. Brianmodeler

    Brianmodeler Member

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    I guess it is a combination of recently playing real tubes and loving it and being unimpressed by ios and pc offerings based purely on the amount of fiddling required that isnt easy. Like mouse and click and finger point and touch and everything. And the real tube tone is just real. it just felt real and responsive to dynamics and everything. it felt like i had just put on glasses.

    Maybe if i played an AFB i would feel the same.
     
  9. Jr.Deluxe

    Jr.Deluxe Well-Known Member

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    If you have a situation that can be solved by a modeller, i dont think you can go wrong with the AFB. If you just want to play guitar and dont have patience for paramter tweaking, a tube amp with 6 or 7 knobs is best. In my experience a tube pre really needs a tube power amp or at least guitar oriented amp like the mosvalve. Maybe the Radar can sim a power amp good enough i dont know. Even then you still need a frfr powered speaker cab. Unless you really need to play direct i would just get a tube amp. If you do need to play direct into the soundboard, id get a firebox.
     
  10. deadpan

    deadpan Member

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    I have both the Mooer and the Firebox. The Firebox power sims are better for me, they are real sound and behaving where while the Radar power sims sound good they are static and do not seem to add distortion the more pushed etc.
     
  11. Wyatt McConnell

    Wyatt McConnell Senior Member

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    Thx for that comparison. DIdn't know you had the Radar. This makes me all the more excited to get my Kingsley preamp pedal.
     
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  12. Brianmodeler

    Brianmodeler Member

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    But what if i want to play direct sometimes and have the ease of a tube pre. Those kingley preamps are high voltage tube pres based on Fender or Dumbles.

    You can take them into an interface into Two Notes Wall of sound which has an amazing power amp sim and cab sim software. The Cab sims in WOS are amazing. They are different from IR. So thats ultimately going to be my decision between two notes CAB or Radar. Or even use a tube pre with my Laptop in the rack running two notes WOS,
     
  13. Jr.Deluxe

    Jr.Deluxe Well-Known Member

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    If you like it, do it. Buy them all if you want. Im not stuck on any 1 product and i dont defend atomic. I havr the aa12, the zoom g1x, joyo american sound, a couple other earlier modeller things, at least a dozen vintage and not vintage tube amps. One product im looking foreward to is the OX amp top box from UA. On the low end of the scale is the zoom g1x and the joyo. Ive heard impressive things done with that. The feel of these devices are all different.
     
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