Can we expect more amp models/effects?

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Napalmhardcore, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Napalmhardcore

    Napalmhardcore Member

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    Hi, I'm new here. I've had a bit of a search (which isn't always easy depending on how a question has been phrased) but I've not been able to find much info regarding any kind of road map/future plans to add new amps and effects if there are any such plans.

    This isn't an angry "MORE AMPS!" thread. It's just that many of the reviews and even the product description said that the Amplifire products were going to evolve over time and be added to. I appreciate that firmware updates are adding functionality and addressing bugs, but those things aren't quite the same as having new amp models, drive pedals or effect types to play around with. I also appreciate the fact that the Amplifire team has been very busy with projects like the Amplifirebox. At present though, we haven't received the kind of updates I was expecting/hoping for.
     
  2. FullHouse

    FullHouse Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the Atomic forum, I don't know of any manufacturer who publishes their plans for future updates, including new amps and effects. Doing so would not make sense at a business level as you would simply be giving away your business strategy to your competitors! Atomic did hint at an update in the near future so I expect we will see something before the end of the year.

    Personally, I don't need any new amps as I can get all of the sounds I need from the current options, especially as I use 3rd party IRs. More effects would be nice as would some templates for the most common pedals to make setting the effects up simpler; however I would not trade the AA approach to effects (which is similar to Eventide and Strymon) for the Line 6 approach.
    FullHouse
     
  3. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Well-Known Member

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    The Atomic gear is definitely "what you get is what you get". And what you get is absolutely KILLER amp tones in a box. It is not a device I would buy hoping for down the road updates. It's a box that if it currently has what you need in it; you are going to get great tones out of it. Period.
     
  4. thegummy

    thegummy Member

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    Definitely best to buy it for what it is now and any future additions would be a bonus.

    Since I bought it there have been amazing new additions but don't want to get my hopes up that there will be just as many more as it's a lot to expect.
     
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  5. Napalmhardcore

    Napalmhardcore Member

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    If it is the case that "what you get is what you get", then I feel a bit disappointed. From all the talk about it online (especially around the time of its release) I had been lead to believe that it would be a constantly evolving product and that I could expect new amps and effects to be added as time goes on.

    It was marketed as a comparatively inexpensive amp modeler/multi-effects unit that does away with some of the extras like advanced routing and multiple signal paths but can deliver amp tones on par with the likes of Helix and AX8. With the release of Helix LT, now there is an option for not much more money, greater flexibility in terms of routing/signal flow, built-in looper, built-in expression pedal and has way more amps and effects.

    I've seen arguments both for and against the amp models on the Helix. Most of the criticism is of the high gain tones (which doesn't affect me too much as I primarily use clean-medium gain). Putting those arguments aside for the moment, in terms of bang for the buck it is looking like a much more attractive option. Ignoring the Helix for a moment, as I understand it the AX8 is also adding to its library. That means that both units that this was designed to be an inexpensive alternative to are gaining value for the money as time goes on. I bought the Amplifire as an investment, but at the moment I just don't feel like I've seen as much of a return on that investment as I would have liked.

    I'll just nip this in the bud before it even starts (as I've seen how this type of post gets reacted to on other forums/threads). I've never owned a Line 6 product and neither have I owned any Fractal products.
     
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  6. Wyatt McConnell

    Wyatt McConnell Senior Member

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    Well, as an investment, it's probably done pretty well for you -- I'm guessing you can sell it for ~80% of what you paid for it, which ain't bad for music hardware. If more amp models is what you crave -- you have invested wisely in that you can now sell the amplifire and move on.

    Having started with an AA3 and moved to Helix LT and now bought a FIrebox and in process of selling the LT I can say this: Helix offers a little more amp selection in the Vox style and usefully so; it has a touch more selection in the tweed style, but I didn't find that added selection to necessarily be a useful expansion of my sonic pallette, Atomic offers at least as much variety in the Marshall-style low-to-mid-gain sounds but more importantly, does this area better than Helix, imo. Sure, Helix appears to have a lot more models in that genre because they have not just Plexi, but Plexi Bright, Plexi Normal and Plexi Jump...but the reality is Plexi Normal sounds like a$$ and is pretty much unusable, and the Plexi Jump is hyper gained to the point of not really falling in the clean-to-mid-gain range. Yeah, there's the JTM 45 in Helix, but it sounds almost exactly like the Bassman (as it should) so doesn't offer a whole lot of extra tonal breadth. Atomic offers a little more variety in the Dumble area, and they are slightly different, but pretty darn close to equal in quality in that genre, imo. On the Blackface front -- they are equals in quality and tonal breadth, imo. There are things that Helix brings to the table that the AA3 does not offer that I enjoyed, but wider range of amp tones wound up not being one of them.

    I don't disagree that taking the better part of a year off (so far) from firmware updates to the amplifire platform to pursue new hardware goes against the marketing pitch. But I also think expecting the firmware update train of a $600 product to keep up with the update train of $1000+ products is also an unreasonable position to take.
     
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  7. lespauled

    lespauled Well-Known Member

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    That's the risk you run with any modeler. If it's a vibrant company, that promises new amp models frequently, you're good.......until they stop making new models.
     
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  8. mikem68

    mikem68 Member

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    would love to have new features on a regular basis, but, I am very happy with the amp tones and the effects as they are. although a univibe that sounds and feels like a univibe would be great.... as well as additional cab features/options like the neunaber iconoclast, etc. would be really forward thinking. I hate being stuck with IR's.
     
  9. mikem68

    mikem68 Member

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    ............or a rack mounted amplifire. I would be all over that as long as it had a foot controller available
     
  10. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Well-Known Member

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    FWIW; I'll take Atomic amp tones ALL DAY EVERY DAY over the Helix. No comparison there WHATSOEVER. (I like to speak in absolutes. Forgive me :D Wyatt is a little more rational than I am). If you need 10 pounds of stuff in a 10 pound bucket; by all means go Helix. Frank and CO are great in the support dept. and the hardware is very robust. I just don't like how it sounds and that is absolutely the top priority for me. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. You'll get most of your $ back should you decide to off the Atomic.
     
  11. Napalmhardcore

    Napalmhardcore Member

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    Quick note: I acknowledge other people's comments even if I haven't quoted them for the sake of space.

    I don't have any intention of selling the Amplifire. I may look to supplement it with another pedal but I'm not looking to get rid of it. As I stated before, this was never intended to be an angry or confrontational thread (I'm not accusing you of being angry or confrontational, though your comment comes across as being mildly defensive, but it's hard to know with text). It's not like I'm saying "If Atomic don't do something soon then I'm moving over to X". I want to see Atomic succeed. I'm just saying that I thought the Amplifire would have expanded its library of amps and effects more and that I'm a little disappointed that it hasn't. Perhaps I got the wrong impression or I was expecting more than what was ever intended to be delivered by the Atomic team. Perhaps the expandability of it was overstated by reviewers/people that have covered it, but nonetheless I was under the impression that the Amplifire/A12 (I have the A12) would be more greatly expanded by now relative to when they released than they are now.

    You mention the JTM45. I'd love a JTM45 model in the Amplifire. I personally think there is enough difference between the Bassman (another favourite of mine) and the JTM45 to warrant it as an addition. Even the Zoom G5 manages to do a decent job of making them distinct (especially in the feel) yet similar. The way I see it is that the basics have been covered (Twin, Deluxe, Bassman, AC30, Classic Plexi, Modern Plexi and a couple of high gain models) and they've thrown in the Dumble as an interesting addition, but aside from the Dumble those are kind of essential bases to cover with a modeler. I'd like to see something like Hiwatt, Supro, Orange or even some less commonly modeled stuff like the Silvertone Twin Twelve, Laney, a Peavey other than the 5150, some low wattage amps or something I've never heard of before. I'll make it clear, I was never expecting all of these, but I thought we'd possibly get one or two options that are a bit different from the ones that have been found in pretty much every modeler since modeling started.
     
  12. Wyatt McConnell

    Wyatt McConnell Senior Member

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    I certainly didn't mean to be defensive, my tone was of a person that has been through this conversation several times (and for some reason keep inserting myself into it again). If you just joined the Atomic world when AA12 was released then you basically have seen nothing during your ownership period in terms of firmware updates. And its been a while since the last update -- what, December? But -- Helix is pushing 6 months with no substantive firmware update while they've been working on release of Helix Native. Clearly the development of the Firebox has been all-consuming and so that is the likely explanation of why no firmware updates since basically the release of the AA12. I mean, the bulk of the company operations from tech support to R&D etc., has been handled by two guys historically, and there's only so much two guys can do.

    Now that Firebox is out can we expect more amps? Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows? I mean, I think a lot of folks thought after AA12 was released (myself at least) thought "aaaaah, they've been working on a new product THAT explains it - now they'll get back to work expanding amps!" but clearly they jumped right into developing another product instead. Who knows, maybe now that Firebox is out they're turning to a rack mount version with scribble strips in the foot controller, or some weird unimaginable product. Or maybe they're getting back to work on a new firmware for Amplifire. The people that have posted in here have all been through this conversation enough times to know that the only real answer is "all you can expect is what you've got; you can hope for more; if you want/need more, just sell it and move on. Its just gear after all."

    But to give some perspective on firmware updates/product expansion -- In general, the effects section of Amplifire has expanded quite dramatically from its release -- it released around the same time Helix launched and I think one could certainly argue that the effects in Atomic land have expanded significantly more than Helix has. The number of amps added isn't quite up to par with Helix, but its not crazy far off either (and Helix hasn't kept up with Fractal within the same time period).

    I also think the general feeling of folks that have stayed with the AA3/AA12 platform is that more than expanding amps, some serious work on the editor needs to be done. Preset management is really clunky in that thing. I also think the general feeling of folks that have spent loads of time with AA3/AA12 is that NOT a device that's meant to allow you to enjoy the subtle nuanced differences between a Bassman and JTM45 - its meant to efficiently provide the tools a working guitarist needs. There are other platforms that are soooooooo much better at offering wide range of amp tones and making practicing easy/efficient.
     
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  13. Wyatt McConnell

    Wyatt McConnell Senior Member

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    (for anyone counting, Helix has added 17 amp channels in total, 5 of which are bass amps, since launch, Atomic 7. On a percentage increase basis, that's gotta be in favor of Atomic but I'm not going to go search the numbers of amps included in each originally at launch)
     
  14. Napalmhardcore

    Napalmhardcore Member

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    While I find a new hardware release as exciting as the next guy, I personally hope that we will see some more (hopefully exciting) updates for the A3/A12 before they roll out a super duper rackmount version (if they ever do or plan to). On the other hand, I'd guess that if they did release a super duper rackmount version that updated effects and amp models that they make for it would be compatible with the A3/A12, so bring it on! If however they released an A3/A12 Mk2 with improvements we've been asking for on the current models and abandoned support of the current models, then I'd be pretty miffed.
     
  15. facefirst

    facefirst Well-Known Member

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    I wish they'd offer some more effects. The main thing I'd like is a revamped editor. Absolutely hate it. So damn clunky and unintuitive. They really need to hire a competent UI/UX developer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  16. StratCatz

    StratCatz Member

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    While there was a lot to like in terms of amps and IRs with the AA3 I bought, I found the effects decent and the FX/Expression setup annoying. Always nice to have software updates a la Fractal Quantum which constantly updates their product, it is not a deal breaker for me. Agree that the editor and effects controls difficult to work with. I sold the AA3 as a result.

    Now, I really like what Atomic did by releasing the Firebox and have been tweaking it since receiving it last week. I only use a few presets at any given time and the amps provided in the AFB/AA3/AA12 are more than adequate. Perhaps some more IRs? By hooking up my AFB to my Eventide H9, I couldn't be happier. Hope to gig with that setup soon. Congratulations Atomic, you guys really hit the mark with the AFB.
     
  17. Slartibartfarst42

    Slartibartfarst42 Well-Known Member

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    I'm another one who is pretty co0ntent overall. I bought my AA3 with limited expectations as I'd never been able to get along with a modeller before but circumstances meant I had to have something very compact rather than my usual valve amp. I went with the Atomic simply because it was cheaper than an Axe FX and I've never liked Line6 amp modelling. Incredibly, it has worked out that I like it so much I can't see me ever going back to a valve amp. Having been so used to working with a valve amp I find I neither need nor want endless amp models so what's here suits me just fine already. Although I experiment with different sounds, I find that by using Twin, Plexi, Brit and Friedman models I have everything covered. The Plexi model is just godly, to the extent that if need be I could survive on just the Twin and Plexi models.

    Effects aren't exactly extensive but there's nothing that leaps to mind that I dislike or can't use. I find this to be very surprising because previously I've never encountered a modeller with overdrive effects that sound in any way realistic. I was so sceptical that when I bought my AA3 I kept my trusty Overdrive but that went ages ago now and I use the AA3 exclusively for everything except Wah. Rather than buy an expression pedal it was just as easy to keep my Crybaby. For me, the Atomic isn't just superb, it really is an 'all-in-one' solution for my guitar needs. At the moment my only restriction is that 3 footswitches can be a little restrictive so when I'm back in the UK next August I intend to change it for the AA12.

    All of this isn't to say I don't have gripes. There really should be at least one model for a bass amp, the effects are needlessly complex and the Editor is a joke. Being unable to easily rearrange presets with a simple drag and drop is laughable these days and it's a complete pain that once I've finally configured an effect I like, I can't easily copy it for use on another preset. There were editors that could do these things and more 20 years ago!
     
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  18. amonch

    amonch Member

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    I think beyond all of that, the AA3 is really great. I wish the developers had a bit more interaction with the community since we have no idea on what's being developed at the moment for the AA3 nor do we know when will the next update actually roll. Does Tom King even read this forum anymore?
     
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  19. Riffmagus

    Riffmagus Well-Known Member

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    More interaction with the community would be good, but I suppose we all brought the af3 or af12 due to what they had not what they could have. The current amp selection with custom irs cover all the ground for most styles and you could add a zoom ms70cdr for very little £$. A non beta firmware would be nice with a few updates to the editor to make it more user-friendly / drag and drop and FX presets please...
     
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