Celestion announced the F12-X200

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Dagwin, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. JoeInOttawa

    JoeInOttawa Senior Member

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    Latest from Celestion/Dr. Decibel this morning (Oct 15):

    "The speakers are currently en-route from the factory. I don’t have any information about when they will be instore. They are designed as a drop-in replacement for a guitar speaker, so will be useable in an open back cab. Obviously you’ll have all the open back vs closed back differences you would with a conventional guitar speaker.

    "Regards, The Doc"

    So, assuming "enroute from the factory" means "China to distro centers," I imagine the speakers should be available for purchase around the end of the month. So, only 11 months from announcement to introduction. I've had to wait in the past for new products, and so far, the results have been worth waiting for (I'm looking at you, Singular Sound -- love my Beat Buddy!), so I'm optimistic that the cab I had built three months ago and the Duncan PowerStage I collected a few weeks ago will go to waste.

    Time for Celestion to prove me right.

    :)

    Joe
     
  2. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    Mailed Thomann.de about estimated delivery for my F12-X200 order, their answer:
    End of Jaunari... :(
     
  3. JoeInOttawa

    JoeInOttawa Senior Member

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    Yes, it turns out what was "en-route from the factory" were samples for their OEMs. But Mick Farlow (Xitone) says they're worth waiting for. So there's that.
     
  4. Elric

    Elric Well-Known Member

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    That would not work well, IMHO. These are primarily designed for turning a Guitar cab into an FRFR cab doing it half way would just give you the worst of both worlds.
     
  5. Valhallir

    Valhallir Member

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    I think they will take longer for a release than the next Tool-Album. ;-)
     
  6. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    They were in stock at Lean Business UK yesterday!
    But already sold out again...
    https://www.lean-business.co.uk/esh...hm-97db-full-range-guitar-speaker-p-3143.html

    Luckily for me, I managed to order one :)

    I also still have an order open with Thomann.de, but they don't even list them on their site anymore.

    I had planned to put one in a old marshall 8080 cabinet.
    But would it make sense to put 2 of these in a 212 cabinet ? Would that give a better sound ?
     
  7. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    So it arrived:
    upload_2018-12-8_10-31-11.png

    First impressions after 30 minutes with the speaker mounted in the Marshall 8080 open back cabinet:
    - Presets with a cab added with Celestion 4x12 redbacks IR sound almost the same as my presets without IR played through my 2x12 cab with Redbacks
    - Clean preset sounds very good
    - Gain presets sound a bit thin: there is a lack of bottom end/thump, tried with several IRs
    - Played some music from my smartphone via FX in of my Quilter mini101: sounds good!
    - Speaker is a little bit quieter at same amp volume (efficiency is a little bit less)

    I'm a bit in dubio now....
    Lack of bottom end/thump probably has to do with the marshall cab being open back.
    Speaker needs perhaps some breaking in as well ?

    Either I order a second one (and wait for god knows how long) and build them into my 212 cab
    OR
    I order a closed back or even ported 112 cab (e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Montage-Thiele-1x12-Ported-Guitar-Speaker-Cabinet-empty/727630550)

    What do you guys think ?

    Have to work now, will play some more with it tomorrow and will try to do a recording/comparison.
     
  8. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    Got the bottom end sorted out, I had -6dB on all cab blocks because I tried once trough my Macky CR5 monitors.
    Dialed it up => bottom end OK !

    Got to the point where the F12-X200 sounded just about the same with the Celestion Redback 412 IR as my 212 cab with Redbacks. Just a little bit extra treble needed to make them sound the same.

    The F12-X200 certainly sounds/behaves like a guitar speaker, so that's good :)
    It is to deep to build it into my existing cabinet, it is about 5 cm deeper than the redbacks currently in the cab.
    The F12 also can give a LOT more feedback than my redback cabinet. Its as if my humbuckers are a lot hotter with this speaker.
    I consider it a good thing, as I couldn't get any feedback when I wanted to from my redback cabinet.

    The bad news: the old marshall cab I put the F12 in rattled a LOT.
    Turned out it wasn't the cabinet, but the white cap on the back of the speaker.
    Got in touch with the supplier, the speaker will ge to Celestion on Monday and I'll have to wait for a replacement until they investigated.
    Oh well, what's a few weeks waiting after you already waited for months...
     
  9. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    OK, follow up for those still interested.
    I got the speaker back 1-2 weeks ago, together with the Montage ported cabinet also ordered from Lean Business:
    https://www.lean-business.co.uk/esh...front-ported-guitar-cabinet-empty-p-2957.html

    Have been playing quite a bit with it now and still really like it.
    It is for sure going to replace my 212 cabinet.
    Sounds really like a cab, especially at loud volumes.
    As said before, I had to make almost no changes to my profiles, they worked pretty much out of the box.
    Gig volume is with the quilter mini 101 main volume at noon, so plenty of headroom.

    On top of that, the speaker also handles music really well!
    Have been playing music through the cabinet instead of the studio monitors (via FX in of the quilter mini 101) at all kinds of volumes.
    Sounds as good as the monitors :)

    The cabinet is also really nice, especially for the money. Seems well built with eye for detail.
    The metal grille for example has rubbers over the edges that touch the front plate and there is sound damping material covering a large part of the interior.

    What I'm thinking of now is to get a plate amplifier to mount in the cabinet to make it an active cabinet. GAS never goes away I guess ;-)

    I can highly recommend both the speaker and the montage cabinet!

    Two of those cabinets with F12-X200's would make a nice stereo solution both for guitar and music :)
     
  10. JoeInOttawa

    JoeInOttawa Senior Member

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    I am definitely still interested. How deep is the speaker? I have a vintage-Marshall-style 1x12 gathering dust while it waits for these to appear in Canada, and I'd hate to get the speaker only to find out it won't fit.
     
  11. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    Its 165mm deep, about 30mm deeper than a Celestion V30 or Redback. It doesn't fit in my 2x12.
     
  12. NelsonP

    NelsonP Senior Member

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    What kind of cab would you need for these speakers? I would guess that it is important that the encolsure itself does not colour the sound too much.

    Maybe Atomic could produce a cheaper version of the CLR using these? With say, 200 watts. I'd be all over that!
     
  13. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    A good cab is easily 200€, speaker is 140€, amplifier is around 300€. Count in some working hours, development costs and a profit margin. They will probably want to use their own crossover to tune the frequency response. You can see that the price would be not much less than the CLR, which can be had for 915€ from Andertons.

    But I agree it would be an interesting option to have a CLR with this speaker for that "live" feeling!

    As for the cab needed, celestion has provided a 112 closed back ported cab design for this speaker.
     
  14. JoeInOttawa

    JoeInOttawa Senior Member

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    Great -- thanks!
     
  15. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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  16. Matt

    Matt Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully they will deliver stock to dealers soon.
     
  17. JoeInOttawa

    JoeInOttawa Senior Member

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    These are officially out of stock everywhere -- including the recently reliable Thomman and Gear4Music -- until mid to late March. Guess they didn't get many out of China before Chinese New Year...

    The exception, of course is in Canada, where they still claim the speaker does not or ever has it ever existed. Apparently, the people here and on The Gear Page who have them and have provided video or photographic evidence are all lying to us. I actually had a certain shop here in town tell me in no uncertain terms that the speakers do not exist, never have, and will not before fall, and that anyone who's told me otherwise is lying.

    (I don't frequent that shop much anymore...)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  18. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    You can buy the speaker but you have to be quick. They are in and out of stock all the time, at least in Europe.
    In Europe, Lean Business is always among the first to have them, you can subscribe to be notified when they have them in stock.
     
  19. JoeInOttawa

    JoeInOttawa Senior Member

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    I may be wrong, but I think we will see that even Lean will be out of stock for a few weeks. Hopefully, once the flow of these speakers starts again, it will be more reliable.
     
  20. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    UPDATE (long overdue).

    I finally have the F12-X200 working now the way I like it.
    Installed it in a ported cabinet that can be tilted: https://www.lean-business.co.uk/esh...front-ported-guitar-cabinet-empty-p-2957.html

    I recently installed a plate amplifier in the cabinet, the PWR-ICE125 from minidsp: https://www.soundimports.eu/en/pwr-ice125.html
    This one has a built in DSP, so you could measure the frequency response of the cabinet and apply some equalizing to flatten the output if that's what you want.

    Very happy with the sound now! With the Celestion 412 redback IR it sounds almost exactly the same as through my XF212 cabinet with redbacks.
    No need to tweak the presets, I can use the same presets with both cabinets.
    But the F12-X200 allows me to play with IR's to get more tonal options.
    I can also use the cabinet directly with my acoustic guitar, works very well too!
    Or I can go through the AA6 with the acoustic to add some reverb etc.

    It sounds even great when playing music from my computer through the cabinet. Too bad the AA6 doesn't have an AUX in to play along tracks.

    I also tried the Dayton Audio PPA800DSP plate amplifier, because Xitone uses those.
    These have 2 input channels with seperate volume control and also bluetooth, but it was unusable for me.
    It was putting out white noise even with the volume at zero and nothing connecting, had to turn the volume really up in order not to hear it anymore. Totally unworkable for home use. After much mailing back and forth with the manufacturer and supplier, the conclusion was that this is normal for this type of high powered amplifiers....
    The PWR-ICE125 on the other hand is very quiet.
    It is loud enough for reharsals and gigs, but my Quilter mini101 has more power. Perhaps it would have been better to install the PWR-ICE250 for some more headroom, but that one was out of my budget.

    If you are the DIY kind of guy/girl, I can highly recommend building your own FRFR cabinet based on the F12-X200!
    But in terms of cost, you won't save that much.
    The cabinet was about 200 euro, speaker 130 euro and the plate amp 370 euro, so in total about 700 euro...
    For 930 euro you can buy an Atomic CLR Neo from Andertons.

    Next step would be to build my own cabinet from scratch based on the plans from Celestions dr Decibel ;-) and build my own plate amp based on OEM components. Would anyone be interested in if I build and sell this ? ;-)
     

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