Need help with AA3 & Eventide H9 on pedal board ?

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by zoommooz, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. zoommooz

    zoommooz Member

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    I already own the AA3 and I'm in the middle of setting up a new pedal board. I plan to add an Eventide H9 to the board as well (Sounds amazing). I was wondering if anyone here has some advice about set up via MIDI.

    I need some help with the MIDI side of things. I get the basics of MIDI, but no guru that's for sure !!

    I know both the H9 and AA3 have MIDI, but how do I have AA3 send MIDI CC's to the H9 to switch presets on the AA3 and at the same time change to a specific patch on the H9 using the sends and retruns of effects loop on the AA3 ?

    I have looked in the editor to the AA3 and se MIDI CC stuff, but can't seem to figure out what I'm missing!

    Sure appreciate any help !
     
  2. aleclee

    aleclee Forum Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    Are you trying to have the AA3 change presets on the H9 or have the H9 control presets on the AA3?

    Either way, the keys are
    • Connecting one device's (sender) MIDI output to the other's (receiver) MIDI input
    • Ensure that the sender is sending on the same MIDI channel that the receiver is listening for
    Also, technically, CCs (Continuous Controller) are used for turning FX on/off and expression data. PC (Program Change) messages are used for selecting presets.

    IIRC, the AA3 will send a PC message whenever you change presets. I believe the same is true for the H9. Thus, you don't have to do anything special to get the device to send the PC message but there's quite possibly a mismatch between the MIDI channel the AA3 is sending on the one the H9 is listening on.
     
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  3. zoommooz

    zoommooz Member

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    Thanks for the reply !!

    I understand the basic aspect of MIDI in versus out, but how do I tell the AA3 which parameter on the H9 I want to change when I select the new preset on the AA3 ??

    For example lets say I select preset #1 on the AA3 which is lets just say a Fender Deluxe sound, but now I also want a Delay and Chorus from the H9 to always come in the same AA3 preset. Lets say the H9 has this preset in location 10. How does the AA3 tell the H9 which preset and parameters on the H9 to load ?

    Thanks !!
     
  4. aleclee

    aleclee Forum Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    @Jace Nuzback can give a more authoritative answer but as far as I know, you can't map PC changes like that. You'd have to use H9 preset #10 with AA3 preset #10. That's the way I set mine up.
     
  5. flcmcya

    flcmcya Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure Alex is right... numbers have to match on both...I had a 4 button midi to run the H9 ..... but it was independent of the A3, and a bit of a pain to run like that.
     
  6. mollydyer

    mollydyer Senior Member

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    The atomic doesn't have the ability to 'map' one program to another, so your only choice at the moment is to match the programs. This is what I do.

    Also an important note- you probably don't want to connect the H9's midi out back to the atomic's midi in, if you've already plugged the atomic's midi out to the H9's midi in.
     
  7. sqward

    sqward Member

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    In H9 App you can map incoming program change messages to internal preset slots. So it translates AA preset number into internal preset in H9
    h9-pc-mapping.jpg
     
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  8. zoommooz

    zoommooz Member

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    Thanks everyone for the great insight ! I had a feeling this might be the case with the AA3 and H9 commbined. The MIDI part is not exactly ideal so I either have to map it exactly, which is not horrible, but less than ideal.

    Rather than deal with getting a separte MIDI foot controller (Which takes up even more limited space on my board) ....I was thinking of selling my AA3 and getting the AA12. That way I at least have more direct switches at my feet, AND still have direct acces to Delay on/off, Chorus on/off and boost etc in the AA12 if I want. PLus I can have each send MIDI to the H( for the specific effects etc. PLus I can at least have my roughly 6 main guitar sounds form the AA12 for clean, crunch, lead, and 3 more for particular amp sounds when I need them and still have left over for instant on / off of effects etc and patches to the H9 at the same time. Thoughts ??
     
  9. flcmcya

    flcmcya Well-Known Member

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    That's what I did.........
     
  10. StratCatz

    StratCatz Well-Known Member

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    I bought a Disaster Area DMC3 to switch but found the AA3 and H9 switching and setup too frustrating and sold the AA3 despite liking the amp & cab models.

    I do agree the AA12 is a great way to go and regret not doing that or getting the AA6 had it been available. As I had the H9 already, there is no way the AA12 comes close to what that pedal does so instead, my choice was to get the AFB and combine it with the H9 and liking the results. Maybe it's old age but by using the iPad to control the H9's presets and adding a Roland EV-5 expression pedal, it allows for a lot of control over the delays, reverbs, modulation, etc on a compact pedal board.

    As a long time user of digital amp modeling pedals over the years, experience leads me to conclude that I never really need more than 2 amps with volume boost for tone. The rest can be handled beautifully by the H9 and if I want patch up/down on the Eventide, I still have my DMC3 pedal I could always implement. This is why I bought the AFB instead. May not be the way you want your pedal set up but it sure works very well for me.
     
  11. zoommooz

    zoommooz Member

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    Strat Catz, thanks for the great info. I was so close to selling my AA3, then buying the AA12 along with the H9. BUT, instead of taking the hit off the AA3 and spending more money heres what I ended up doing and it sounds great !

    I kept the AA3 since frankly, its the exact same firmware and sounds as the AA6 or AA12 anyhow. My issue was external effects and controlling my board. I decided NOT to buy an H9 ! I LOVED it for sure, but I just didn't love how it was not really pedal board friendly without the buying a separate midi controller.

    I ended up buying the NEW Line 6 HX Effects instead. I know, the H9 may sound a better, but not enough for me to worry about. First, the HX Effects is the same firmware as the Helix but with out the Amp Sims (Which is perfect since I'm using the AA3 ONLY for amp sounds anyhow) It really sounds nice !! The other key reason, is it has WAY more board flexibility. For example, it now acts as my midi contoller, effects via an effects loop, and I can simoultanesously run the AA3 and a "Real" amp using the great routing. In addtion, it offfers great mapping of effects and has Snapshots (A.k.a. song scenes). So for $599 ($100 less than the Eventide) I get both a great effects unit, a midi controller and a lot of flexibility in one. For me it ended up being a no brainer !
    And by the way, using the nnew firmware from Atomic Amps, (5.0) I can run the effects loop in parallel now so it sounds fantastic ! Much more clarity I've alreay noticed. It keeps the amp tone the sameso its very nice.

    For anyone with an AA3, AA6 or AA12, I highly reccomend the HX Effects. along with the greta amp tones in the AA stuff, you now have everything you could need in two boxes ! And also, I run the entire thing using a Line 6 G10 Wireless (Installed on my board) and its super easy to set up and use ! Love it !
     
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  12. NelsonP

    NelsonP Well-Known Member

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    @zoommooz That sounds like a brilliant setup you've got there. I've got the AA12 and am not a massive effects user so couldn't justify the extra expense and hassle of having two separate units.

    But an AA3 (or even an AA6) and a HX Effects on a board would be a very nice thing to have indeed!
     
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  13. zoommooz

    zoommooz Member

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    Nelson, it worked out really nicely. I dont need tons of effects either, but frankly, as good as the ones are built-in to the AA3, AA6 or AA12, using the effects loop sounds MUCH better and cleaner with less impact on the amp tones too.

    I totally get why you bought the AA12, makes sesne to me too. Thats why I was going to go that route bfore until I saw the HX! For me when I looked at the likely, $100 loss when selling the AA3, plus adding the other $200 extra to buy the AA12 anyhow totalling $300 just to make the chnage for me. So for only $300 more than that I end up with all the switches I need, MIDI controller, awesome efects and routing, and all in about the same footprint as an AA12 when I combine both the AA3 and HX FX next to each other.
     
  14. flcmcya

    flcmcya Well-Known Member

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    Nice I hated using a separate midi controller with the A3/H9 as I didn't integrate it with my presets.

    I may actually go G10/Freakout/Boost/AFB/H9 on a mini board for my little church gig.

    Maybe toss in a mini wah cuz the parisioners get this funky look when I start into Voodoo Child out of the blue!

    Enjoy!
     
  15. flcmcya

    flcmcya Well-Known Member

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    Which I Did!

    Backup for my Kemper Rig!




    20180330_232245_resized.jpg
     
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  16. Mr.LukeCooper

    Mr.LukeCooper Member

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    I think an H9 and AA3/AFB/AA6 were just made for each other. I tried the midi controller but it got away from the simplicity of the rig. Though @flcmcya that is a nice looking board. What midi controller is that?
     
  17. flcmcya

    flcmcya Well-Known Member

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    Jomlabs Vlt1....it works pretty straightforward with the AFB as it is only a controller for the H9.
     
  18. Aholley

    Aholley New Member

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    hello all. I'm new to the forum, the AA6 and the H9. Also not very versed in midi. Was previously using my H9 with a musicomlab switcher on my pedalboard/amp setup. so I'm clear on how that works for the most part. I've read above and it sound like it's doable but not in a traditional sense but I'm not following beyond that. Could someone please explain? All I want to do is basically use my H9 for fx and have the selected presets on the h9 change in conjunction with the the presets I want them for on the AA6.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  19. Aholley

    Aholley New Member

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    Hello. Could you please explain this further. I'm not following how this works.
     
  20. zoommooz

    zoommooz Member

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    Hi Aholley,

    So after lots of back and forth since starting this thread some time ago, I've learned quite a bit about how to approach this issue. Keep in mind this is form my perspective with regards to using the Line 6 HX Effects along with the AA3 (or AA6 / AA12). As for using this method with an H9, it's my understanding the MIDI capabilities in the H9 may limit the ability to choose a different preset # on the AA3 from the one chosen on the H9. So you MAY have to match the preset #'s of the H9 to the same preset on the AA3.

    Eventide H9 w/ AA6: From what I've read, instead of using the H9 to control the AA6, you may want to reverse this and have the AA6 be your main “MIDI” controller to then change the preset on the H9 instead. Especially since you have (6) preset buttons on the AA6 giving you more space. Since I use an AA3 and only have the 3 preset buttons, I thought it made more sense for me to go from the HX effects to the AA3.

    This way you simply step on the button of the amp tone on the AA6 such as a Fender Deluxe amp tone. This will send the MIDI program change (NOT CC a.k.a. Continues Control Change) from the AA6 to the H9 and will add the appropriate effects on the H9 in the corresponding preset.

    Make sure on the H9 to change the MIDI output to "Thru" just in case you chain other MIDI devices after the H( later(. This will allow those same MIDI messages from the AA6 to get to those devise further down the line (chain).

    HX Effects w/ AA3 - I ended up running the HX Effects in 4CM (4 Cable Method - READ UP on this if you're not familiar SEE IMAGES ATTACHED. Its actually simpler to accomplish than you would think. I believe it's the best way to run this.) So I run the AA3 as if it were a traditional amp/cab set up. The sound is infinitely better than the other traditional options. Just trust me on this one, i've I tired them all. This was by far the best sounding and most versatile, It also gives you the ability to have greater control over the effects and separation of those effects when combined at the speaker cab with the amp tones themselves.
    HX Effects Back panel.JPG HX Program Change.JPG HX BankPC Settings.jpg AA3 Back Panel.JPG Mark's Pedal Board.jpg
    The way I set up my config: (SEE ATTACHED images) I use the HX Effects as a MIDI controller for my entire board. When I select a specific preset on the HX, it automatically (via MIDI) changes the AA3 to the amp tone / preset I assigned for this particular patch/preset. (Keep in mind I ONLY use the AA3 now for amp tones ONLY, NO EFFECTS at all !) You DO NOT have to run it this way. i just felt like the effects in the HX were so much better with much more control and realism. In my opinion!

    MIDI set up: In the HX specifically I was was able to run a totally different preset number on the HX from the preset # on the AA3. I simply used the ability to assign a specific program #. This in turn tells the A3 to change to a specific preset # on the AA3. I did not see anything in the H9 documentation that allows a SPECIFIC program change to other devices. Thats again why I suggested using the AA6 in your case as the main midi controller. This way you just assign certain presets on the H9 that match the same preset # on the AA6. So if need a certain delay for preset #12 on the AA6, it will then change the H9 to be preset 12 as well.

    4CM 4 Cable method" using Line 6 HX Effects and Atomic Amps AA3/AA6 or AA12 - See attached images and notes.

    I hope this all helps ! Best of luck.

    Mark


    4CM 4 Cable method" using Line 6 HX Effects and Atomic Amps AA3/AA6 or AA12 - See attached images -


    Mark
     

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