Cab block rolloff and use through amp fx loop

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by ConstantinosM, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. ConstantinosM

    ConstantinosM Active Member

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    i have a question about the cab block rolloff knob. pretty much every guide for preset making includes a kind of high end rolloff in the cab block but im guessing the IRs (at least the 3rd party ones-cant say about the atomic factory ones) were made through an actual cab and imprint its sound characteristics.

    in studio/gigs i often have to play through the fx loop of an amp and into a cab they have and so i have turned off the cab block for the quarter inch outputs but i always get an accentuated top end and i guess it's because my presets are created with IRs with the top rolled off in the cab block. am i right in this? should i use a high end rolloff via the parametric eq and flatten the cab block knob in order to get consistency in the sound through my interface and through an amp's fx loop-cab?

    any help/comment/opinion welcome pls
     
  2. dubiousMe

    dubiousMe Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if I have the answer you're looking for, but in my experience I've kept the cab block enabled even if I'm plugged in the fx return of an amp. It stands against the whole concept of the product, but hey it sounds better to my ears :) And yes, I enabled the cab block because of that top end you are describing. :)

    Good luck! :)
     
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  3. Matt

    Matt Well-Known Member

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    First, you should setup your presets while playing as close as possible to the way you will play live. For you that means loud and into a “real” cab if you can.

    Second, the reason you need to dial back the highs and often the lows in the cab block is that most IR’s are deeply flawed due to the way they are captured with close mics. Look for reflection free car field IR’s. There are not many out there yet, but they tend to need less or no eq in the cab block.

    Finally, don’t be afraid to do something “non traditional” to get the sound you want. Keep the cab block on it you prefer it. Or, maybe use an EQ block after the amp block to dial the treble back instead of using the cab block, so it will still be there with the cab block disabled. Whatever it takes to get the sound you want is OK.
     
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  4. ConstantinosM

    ConstantinosM Active Member

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    my problem is i already have created/configured lots of great presets that i use mainly to play on my own and to record with and they sound great through my interface/pc and monitors both in jamming and in a mix and i would like to avoid having to create doubles for each one with the top end configured for power amp use. thats why i considered "bumping" the eq-ing of the top end to a block that would be on in both circumstances.
    also i have tried keeping the cab block on when pluging into an amp and it kind of keeps more of the character of the original preset but it also makes it sound more "closed" and "muffled" if that makes any sense.

    @Matt i would like to try some of the IRs you recommend. can you point some out with a link of where i can find them?

    i have also considered getting a small cheap eq pedal (something like a joyo jf-11) to put in the fx loop and switch on in away-from-home situations but that would also mean i prob have to make a small pedalboard and i really like the fact that i can pop the AA6 in my gigbag as it is and go.

    it would be great if atomic would add in a future update (that hopefully will come at some point!) a global graphic eq that would also be assignable to one or both of the outputs for such fine tuning purposes but also to compensate for different room acoustics
     
  5. Matt

    Matt Well-Known Member

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    Look at The Gear Page and user Gigsup for a number of free IR’s and a LONG thread called IR Properties that explains why this style of IR is different and also a couple examples from Jay Mitchell.
     
  6. Matt

    Matt Well-Known Member

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    Also,
    This is what I would do. Get the signal the way you want it and then either feed it to a real cab or feed it to the cab block depending on situation.
     
  7. ConstantinosM

    ConstantinosM Active Member

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    thx for the link. i gave that thread a quick look. it's got a lot of stuff but mostly theoretical around the process of creating IRs and their properties. it's deep stuff but kind of overwhelming. i got some IRs posted there that sound nice. not really my tone flavor though.

    i tried this but had no big success. the parametric eq blocks dont function quite as the top end rolloff of the cab block or at least i couldnt get them to compensate in a satisfying degree for it when i have it at full open. any advice on settings is welcome.
    i think the addition of an EQ pedal i could switch on or off would be the most convenient/effective solution.
    i plan to add a Boss SY-1 to my AA6 at some point in the near future so i will prob rig a small board to put them all on at that point.
    still a global EQ in a future firmware would be very useful [fingers crossed] the atomic guys and marc gallo have something like that on the works
     
  8. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Personally I like the Cab IR ON even when going in to a real cab.
    But to get a similar high frequency cut as the CAB block, set one of the PEQ blocks
    to POST amp block and set it to the LOW PASS 2 mode.
    LOWPASS 2: Applies a second-order low pass filter which passes bass (lows) and rolls off treble (highs) . This filter begins to roll off (cut) high frequencies above the value set in the FREQUENCY parameter . It passes all low frequencies below the FREQUENCY parameter at the level set with the LEVEL parameter . This mode is similar to LOWPASS 1, but has a faster roll off and it is affected by the Q control . The Q control affects peaking before rolloff . Increase the Q to increase the peak that occurs just before rolloff . Reduce the Q to flatten the peak for a smoother rolloff .
    Jace
     
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  9. ConstantinosM

    ConstantinosM Active Member

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    thanx alot for the tip jace. i didnt know the lowpass 2 was affected by the Q control. i tried tweaking that with a Q of 0.50 and lvl at -3.5db on the 9khz frequency (which i had dialed in the cab rolloff) and it got me close. it however dropped the overall volume a bit and i compensated from the amp block lvl. i will try it in a studio/live situation and report back
     
  10. dubiousMe

    dubiousMe Well-Known Member

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    Just an update... I was able to get a custom made Power amplifier today. My only instruction to the maker was to make it as transparent as possible. Tested it the moment I got home and found it to dark using my old setup(cab block ON)... Only after an hour of playing through that I turned off the cab block and was amazed at the sound...none of the spikes I got from plugging into an fx return of an amp. After this power amp I have come to conclude that the fx return of amp is not near to connecting directly to stand alone power amp. Maybe this conclusion will change after using other stand alone power amps, but so far this is my experience. Hope this adds value to the thread.

    Maybe plugging in to those pedal power amps (SD power stage, EHX Magnun, Mooer Baby Bomb) can get you a setup that will make you turn off your cab block. :)
     

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