Fizzy top end. Where do most set the high-end rolloff for OD tones

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by caballero59, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. caballero59

    caballero59 Well-Known Member

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    Need some guidance regarding high-end rolloff to avoid fizzy, buzzy tones. My IR is Ownhammer Greenback.

    Thanks
     
  2. lespauled

    lespauled Well-Known Member

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    Try the high cut on the cab
     
  3. caballero59

    caballero59 Well-Known Member

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    What frequency are you selecting. I have high-end hearing loss and don't completely trust my ears.
     
  4. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Bring the ROLL OFF down to 5kHz.
    That will take care of any fizz.
    Jace
     
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  5. caballero59

    caballero59 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jace
     
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  6. Dagwin

    Dagwin Well-Known Member

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    That is way too far down for my use, looses all the spark and high end like this.
    For me the sweetspot seems to be 7k-9k, sometimes even lower, sometimes even higher.
    Start around 6-7k and play a bit with the cut off to find the sweet spot where the fuzziness disappears but the high end is not muffled.
     
  7. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Active Member

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    Use a different IR.
     
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  8. slateboy

    slateboy Senior Member

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    Totally agree. A good IR should require little, if any, filtering.
     
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  9. caballero59

    caballero59 Well-Known Member

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    The Ownhammer MRBW GRN M24 4x12 series seems to have good reviews.
     
  10. Messenger

    Messenger Member

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    The York MRSH IR doesn’t seem to need any roll off.
     
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  11. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Just because you need to roll off some high frequencies for the sound you're going for
    doesn't mean the selected CAB IR is "bad."
    If you're playing a Tele through a Twin amp and it sounds bright, you turn down the treble.
    You don't change guitars.
     
  12. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Active Member

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    I'm not so matter-of-fact about that kind of thing myself. Some folks don't play Teles specifically for that reason.
     
  13. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    And yet the Tele with a Twin has been a popular combination for nearly 70 years.
     
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  14. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Active Member

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    Jace, you're missing the point. It's a whole lot easier to change an IR than it is to change guitars. I'll try to make it more clear.

    If you like the sound of a particular speaker/cab, and an IR that allegedly was from that speaker/cab is much brighter (or boomier or squawkier or honkier) than the physical speaker, it makes little sense to attempt to modify the IR to make it sound more like it should in the first place. Odds are that, no matter what you do, it will never sound like the speaker. You're much better off finding an IR that sounds the way you want without modification. The less the experience and skills you have with equalization - FYI, high and low cuts are rarely sufficient - the more this will hold.
     
  15. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Active Member

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    If you'll provide some additional information, I'll be happy to see if I can help you out. In a perfect world, I'd have the following:

    1. A clip of you playing through the preset.
    2. A clip with the guitar tone you'd like to produce. Could be anything that's available to me online.
    3. A copy of your preset.
    4. Information about your guitar.

    With all the above, I'm pretty sure I can get you pointed in the right direction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  16. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Jay, as usual you assume everyone but you is missing the point.
    I have thousands of CAB IR files made by many different people including you.
    I have yet to find one that didn't need some manipulation to sound the way I wanted it to.
    This is why the CAB block provides these parameters.
    If I select an amp model and have all of my tone knobs at noon and it doesn't sound quite right,
    should I select a different amp model or should I try my tone controls first?
     
  17. Slartibartfarst42

    Slartibartfarst42 Senior Member

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    I see wisdom on both sides and I'm about as far from being an expert as it's possible to be so I tend to take a pragmatic approach.

    If the cab and IR I'm using is basically in the ballpark I'm looking for but doesn't quite have the low end/ top end/ whatever I'm looking for, I'm happy to play with the cab parameters and the EQ settings.

    If the cab and IR I'm using just sounds fundamentally wrong or I've played with the settings and it still doesn't sound right, then I change the IR.

    Some IRs I've used I've loaded into the preset, played a few chords and I instantly think 'That's horrible, I don't like it!' In those circumstances I make no attempt at all to tweak the sound, I just go straight to a different IR. That seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do for me and likewise, I've tried IRs where I've thought 'Yeah, that's close to what I want, it just needs a bit more X' and with some tweaking, I can get what I want, or in my case, closer to what I want. I see nothing wrong with either option.
     
  18. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Well said.
     
  19. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Active Member

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    Not exactly. Your attempt at analogy fell flat. Perhaps you weren't so much missing the point as simply proposing a flawed analogy.
    Interestingly enough, the AF provides a wide range of tone-tailoring options in addition to those in the cab block. All of the others are more effective if and when they are needed. It has been my experience that, if I can get a physical cab to sound the way I want it - using the AF and a clean power amp - I can get my IR of the same cab to sound the same with no additional tone-shaping whatever. That has always been the bar that my IRs must clear before I will use them.
    The cab block parameters are severely limited as compared to the PEQ sections. If an IR actually captures the sound of a speaker and if you like the sound of the speaker, you will need neither a low-shelf filter with unspecified order and corner frequency nor a second order lowpass filter. It would be far more useful for the AF to have a global filter block, which could include as little as an adjustable low-shelf filter.
    Once again, you posit a bad analogy. A physical cab has no tone controls. When you're trying out physical cabs - which the cab block is obviously intended to simulate - the tone controls you'll have available are all in the amp, not the cab.

    There is no shortage of tone-shaping tools available in the AF; those in the cab block are the least flexible and therefore the least useful among them.
     
  20. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Active Member

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    One more thing, Jace: do you object to my offering assistance to an AF user? I've gotten very positive responses to presets I've built from a number of well-regarded guitarists. Some of them even changed their minds and decided to keep their AFXs after I shared my presets with them.
     

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