Tone tips

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Jace Nuzback, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Guys,
    Here are the parameters I think are most important for dialing in good tone on all of the Atomic products.

    For dialing good tones, here are the parameters that I think make the biggest impact.


    EQ BLOCK-In my mind this is the most important tone parameter. This EQ is called PRE TONE on the AmpliFirebox and PRE on the AF3, AF6 and AF12. The parameter is called ROLLOFF on the AmpliFirebox and LOWCUT on the AF3, AF6 and AF12. This is a HPF (High Pass Filter) that rolls off low frequencies BEFORE the amp model. This helps every amp model to sound more defined. A good starting point for this value is 250Hz. This means ALL frequencies below 250Hz will be rolled off. If you feel this takes away too much of your low mids can lower this value. You probably shouldn’t set this any lower than 125Hz. On the AmpliFirebox the EQ block needs to be ON and the PRETONE needs to be ON. On the AF3, AF6 and AF12 the PRE block needs to be active.


    AMP BLOCK-DAMPING-Every amp model reacts differently to this parameter. Try hard left, Center and hard right. You'll quickly get a feel for what sounds best with that amps model. With higher DAMPING levels you'll need to boost the LEVEL parameter. With lower DAMPING levels you'll need to lower the LEVEL parameter. (Note that the Rumble, Rumble Brite and Top Boost amp models are not affected by this parameter.)


    CAB BLOCK-Obviously the IR you load will make a HUGE impact on the tone. But the ROLLOFF parameter is very important. The best results come with settings between 7kHz and 10kHz. This is the best way to dial out the high frequency fizz that some people complain about. The PEAKING parameter is also very important. For darker sounds set to.70. For brighter sounds set it to 1.00. For any amp model that sounds too bright to you, set this all the way down to .50.


    KNOBS-MASTER-Different amp models react differently. Some I set far right, but never less than a center setting. This drives the power section of the amp model. On a clean amp, this can be the difference between crystal clean and breaking up.


    KNOBS-GAIN-Even for clean amps I set this at least to 3 or 4. You need enough input signal to get a strong tone, but too high and it breaks up. For high gain tones I find it sounds fuller and heavier at about 2 O'Clock as opposed to cranking it up all the way. With some amps I bring the gain down a bit and drive it with the SCREAMER or OVERDRIVE boost. The Recto is an example of an amp that works better this way.


    LEVEL MATCHING-Anytime you boost anything (EQ frequency, Echo Level, Boost Post Level) you're boosting the output level of the preset which can clip the output and cause distortion. Try to keep most effect block levels at 0dB or less. In the AMP BLOCK use the LEVEL parameter to try and match your different preset levels. If you find that you're clipping the outputs, lower AMP BLOCK LEVEL as much as you need to until the CLIP warning goes away. Lower your other presets AMP BLOCK LEVELS as well to match levels from preset to preset.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  2. csweldon

    csweldon Member

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    Good stuff, Jace!
     
  3. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Thank you.
    Jace
     
  4. Electric I

    Electric I Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the great info.
     
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  5. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    You're welcome.
     
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  6. James Knox

    James Knox Member

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    Super helpful - you’re the best!
     
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  7. tube-amped

    tube-amped New Member

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    Thank you sooo much for sharing this! I've struggled with how to best tweak patches to fine tune them to the sound I am hearing in my head. I think this will clear up a lot for me...
     
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  8. SLAPBACK59

    SLAPBACK59 Member

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    Hi Guys, have I got old firmware or something?On my AF12 my pre eq has various drop down modes, two titles are low shelf 1 and highpass 1 for example.
    No lowcut? So does my highpass equate to your lowcut?
    Also, in my cab block, peak q values of seven and ten seem way more natural and open sounding than decimal seven and one, which you seem to be advocating.Albeit this is at bedroom levels as I don't have the opportunity to play at gig levels at the moment.
    Hope these questions aren't too picky or the answers too obvious.Any help is gratefully received.
     
  9. vernset

    vernset Member

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    Fantastic info. Thanks Jace.

    Just one more doubt. When working with the PRE section and rolling off the low frequencies, I also use to push the volume up a little so I hit the AMP model a little more HOT and usually on low gain pick ups (strato) this gives me better results.

    As I can disable everything except this PRE section in the Amplifire, is easy for me to measure the dbs Im hitting the AMP with (post PRE) by simply watching the faders in my DAW.

    My question is the following:

    Is there any recomendation of how many dbs (or at least a range of dbs) do i have to hit the Amp section with?*

    *Knowing this would be very helpful, as diferent guitar models behave in different ways and it would be a very easy way to change between presets without really having to change so much except that "volume push" I am talking about.

    Thanks in advance Jace, it is great having you here, otherwise users like me that are trying to learn how to use this GREAT but overly complicated pedal that is the Amplifire would be very lost. Keep on the good work man!
     
  10. vernset

    vernset Member

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    Oh, and another question. Recently I watched a video talking about the boss Metalzone pedal and its reputation of being the WORST metal pedal ever.

    This is the video.


    He comments that when using the metal zone IN FRONT of the amp, the Metalzone Sucks, but when connecting it in the Fx Loop (meaning BETWEEN the EQ section of the AMP and The Pwer Amp) the Metal Zone offers great results.

    This other video,
    explains how the Fx loop of a normal Amp Works, and in it, we can see this image:

    [​IMG]

    Where he dintiguises the pre amp and the Power Stage of a normal AMP and where the Fx loop is normally placed.

    My question is, could this insert like method be done in the Atomic Amplifire? A far as I am concerned, the Power Stage (power amp in Amplifire) is a global Setting, with no separation or specific placement in the sound chain of the Amplifire, right?

    so possibly this placement of the metal zone wont be possible... Just curious about this possibility.

    thanks again!
     
  11. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    It's not in the drop down list. It's the last knob on the right.
     
  12. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    Thanks for the kind words.
    I understand what you're doing and it's a smart way to compensate for different pickup output levels.
    There's too many variables to give you an answer on dB though. Gauge of strings, kind of pick, how hard you hit the strings when you play, etc.
    You're just going to have to use your ear to find the proper balance. Sorry I can't be of more help on this one.
    Jace
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  13. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    This signal flow is not possible on the AmpliFire. The FX loop can be POST the amp block, but you don't have the option of putting it between the preamp and the power amp section. With the AmpliFire any distortion pedal should go in front. That said, you're welcome to try it in the FX loop and see how it sounds. It won't hurt anything.
     
  14. SLAPBACK59

    SLAPBACK59 Member

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    Doh! many apologies Jace, the answer was obvious.So what's your opinion on th peaking values in the cab block.Do I need to try the settings at gig levels before casting judgment?Or am I misreading the post?
     
  15. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    I find those settings to be extremely bright. But to each their own! If it sounds good to you then go for it!
     
  16. Metropolis

    Metropolis Member

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    New Amplifire user here! I've got a question about Pre EQ, is it supposed to be set otherwise at default settings when using it just as a hi-pass filter? I have type setting at highpass 1, and everything sounds good this way. Just want to make sure this is "correct" way to use it?
     
  17. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    In the PRE EQ when just using the ROLL OFF (LOW CUT) as I describe It doesn't matter where any of the other PRE EQ parameters are set.
    If instead you set the PRE EQ TYPE to HIGH PASS 1 or HIGH PASS 2 then see the details below.

    HIGHPASS 1: Applies a first-order high pass filter which passes treble (highs) and rolls off bass (lows) . This filter begins to roll off (cut) low frequencies below the value set in the FREQUENCY parameter . It passes all high frequencies above the FREQUENCY parameter at the level set with the LEVEL parameter . This filter is not affected by the Q control .

    HIGHPASS 2: Applies a second-order high pass filter which passes treble (highs) and rolls off bass (lows) . This filter begins to roll off (cut) low frequencies below the value set in the FREQUENCY parameter . It passes all high frequencies above the FREQUENCY parameter at the level set with the LEVEL parameter . This mode is similar to HIGHPASS 1, but has a faster roll off and it is affected by the Q control . The Q control affects peaking before rolloff . Increase the Q to increase the peak that occurs just before rolloff . Reduce the Q to flatten the peak for a smoother rolloff .
     
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  18. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jace,

    Thanks for the tips, I hope this will be included in the next manual version as well.

    I think that the confusion comes from the fact that you didn’t mentioned which PRE EQ TYPE to choose in your first post and neither in this last one.

    Calling an eq block “Pre” it’s confusing too (for some time after first owning AF I thought that was a preamp block with odd parameters).
     
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  19. Dave_5150

    Dave_5150 Senior Member

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    Couldn't wait until the weekend to get tweaking. Some fab advice in here and getting some much better tones with the tamed low ends and high cuts with a wide range of 3rd party IR's.

    Great work @Jace Nuzback
     
  20. Jace Nuzback

    Jace Nuzback Senior Member

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    I'm so glad you found it useful!
    Cheers,
    Jace
     

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